StanCollender'sCapitalGainsandGames Washington, Wall Street and Everything in Between



Obama Versus O'Reilly on Tax Policy

09 Sep 2008
Posted by Andrew Samwick

I give Senator Obama pretty high marks for his appearance on The O'Reilly Factor.  Presidential candidates should spend some time undergoing skeptical cross-examination.  Ideally, it would be informed skepticism.  In this segment, Obama twice has to duck wild Laffer Curveballs thrown by O'Reilly. 

Be that as it may, the best phrase Obama uses when advocating for his tax plan is, "If there's something we've got to pay for ..."  How quaint--arguing that the current generation of taxpayers should pay for their expenditures.  Rhetorically, it is a winning strategy to cut short all of the "tax cuts pay for themselves" and "the problem is spending" interruptions to simply focus on the increase in the national debt.  What's the counterargument?  If the debt is going up, then government is passing along the cost of its current purchases to future generations of taxpayers.  (Almost) nothing more needs to be said about fiscal responsibility, although what he does say in addition is quite good rhetorically -- that we have taken out a credit card from the Bank of China that our kids will have to pay. 

I do have a few of issues with the way Obama argues for a more progressive tax system.  First, he seems to think that progressive taxation is necessary to have income redistribution.  It is not--as long as the tax burden rises with income more quickly than the benefits of government expenditures, there will be income redistribution.  This is more of a technical issue than an ideological issue.

Second, near the end of the segment, he describes higher taxes on those with higher ability to pay as "neighborliness."  That's likely to provoke some outrage -- neighborliness involves voluntary choices made by people to provide mutual or charitable assistance to each other.  That's not what income taxation is -- income taxation is not voluntary.  Viewing progressive taxation as neighborliness sets the wrong tone about more taxation -- presumably, more neighborliness is better than less.  I don't agree with that view of taxation.  I want a government no bigger than it has to be, with taxes just high enough to pay for it.  I recognize ability to pay as a factor in determining the tax schedule, but I do not think the government should go out of its way to redistribute income from one group to another apart from its provision of public goods.

I recall from Obama's acceptance speech that he had a similar description of the role of government (my emphasis added, but quoted in full between interruptions from applause):

What -- what is that American promise? It's a promise that says each of us has the freedom to make of our own lives what we will, but that we also have obligations to treat each other with dignity and respect.

It's a promise that says the market should reward drive and innovation and generate growth, but that businesses should live up to their responsibilities to create American jobs, to look out for American workers, and play by the rules of the road.

Ours -- ours is a promise that says government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves: protect us from harm and provide every child a decent education; keep our water clean and our toys safe; invest in new schools, and new roads, and science, and technology.

Our government should work for us, not against us. It should help us, not hurt us. It should ensure opportunity not just for those with the most money and influence, but for every American who's willing to work.

That's the promise of America, the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation, the fundamental belief that I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper.

That's the promise we need to keep. That's the change we need right now.

In the O'Reilly interview, he gives other examples of the things the government needs to do --  providing assistance to those trying to afford college, to have health care, to pay the bills -- as well as invest in infrastructure.  My third issue with Senator Obama is that I don't agree that all of these things are "that which we cannot do for ourselves" in the absence of federal government involvement.  Regulation of natural monopolies, yes.  Construction of infrastructure projects that span multiple states, yes.  Universal access to health care, yes. Paying our bills for things that benefit us primarily as individuals -- including fuel, college, health insurance, and the like -- not so much.  Income redistribution apart from these sorts of purchases, even less.

It remains to be seen, over the course of the next two months, whether these ideological issues will be more or less important than his commitment to paying for the things we purchase in determining my vote.

news

any perspective on troubled financials?


You're against Pell grants?

"Paying our bills for things that benefit us primarily as individuals -- including fuel, college, health insurance, and the like -- not so much."

It seems to me that getting college educations into the hands of those who really want it, but can't afford it has a definite, if diffuse, benefit for me, and a large swath of America.

Pell grants don't exactly fit your rhetoric, since mostly they are student loans which are, after all, paid back.

Do you really oppose them?


Not Exactly

My understanding is that Pell grants are not loans.  Even so, among the different ways that the federal government involves itself in higher education, they are among the least objectionable--they are a small budget item, they are targeted toward low-income students, and they don't distort the pricing or content of college educations very much.  The political rhetoric that I find objectionable seeks to change the pricing of fuel, or tuition, or health insurance by compelling vendors to sell their product at a price other than what they would choose. 

You are right to zero in on education as a test of the statement.  Educational expenses are one of the few types of expenses that could legitimately be funded by debt, since they make the next generation more productive.  Today, looking back 25 years, my cohort might wish that more investments had been made in our education, and we might gladly have paid the additional taxes (out of our much higher incomes) to retire the debt issued to fund it.

 


Non-governmental Income-based "taxes"

From the moment my children went into local daycare (at 2 years old), we began paying much higher rates for the same service than people of more limited means. This continued through all 9 years of grade school -- constant requests for donations, extras, etc. -- and intensified in high school as we were "requested" to pay a higher amount than our town contributed to the school, where others were not.

But the apex of this "arrangement" is private college. We pay 40k per year per student for my two children (after taxes, mind you) while those who make less money pay little or nothing (under $60k, pays zero at both schools). It would in fact be better for my family if I simply quit work. I understand that this is not a tax, but it is absolutely required for participation in the economy, and many government programs exist to support and reinforce this massive income redistribution.

One of the key reasons why people in my income bracket do not feel "undertaxed" is the constant income testing for normal services that is culturally accepted.


Clintonomics or Bushonomics?

So, does McCain believe in the Laffer nonsense that the cost of the tax cut will be made up by increased growth? How about Professor Palin?

Do you care if person agrees with you for the wrong reasons; or more properly, would you rather that someone agree with you ideologically, or that they understand how things actually work?

I think history shows that practical minded people adjust their political goals to respond to economic reality and constraints, and at least sometime arrive at a good policy outcome. Those who are ideologically driven, tend to ignore economic realities and pursue their political goals to the detriment of good policy.

Do you really have any doubt that Obama is much closer to Bill Clinton's style of pragmatism than George Bush's rigidly ideological folly.


Can we bring back evidence-based, sound policy making? Please?

"The persistent and sustained reliance on falsehoods as the basis of policy, even in the face of massive and well-understood evidence to the contrary, seems to many Americans to have reached levels that were previously unimaginable."

Al Gore, "The Assault on Reason"


He said it...

"The persistent and sustained reliance on falsehoods as the basis of policy, even in the face of massive and well-understood evidence to the contrary, seems to many Americans to have reached levels that were previously unimaginable."

Al Gore, "The Assault on Reason"

"Hey, let's close down the entire coal industry and get rid of the 50% of the all power in grid that comes from coal and replace it all with windmills in just 10 years!

"That's a policy we need and can rely on!

" -- Al"

"(Nuclear? What's a 'nuclear'?)"


Al against nuclear?

Heh, didn't know that. He's right about the lies and assault on reason though.


OBAMA IS TWO FACED ...

9-16-08
Obama keeps crying about how bad the economy is, but if Americans are hurting so bad, how come they were able to send Obama a record breaking 66 million dollars last month? ... And, tonight Obama is asking Americans to give him $28,500.00 each for the Obama/Streisand fund raiser dinner. Two faced Obama has no credibility. No Wright, no Farrakhan, no Pfleger, no Rezko, no Ayers, no mean Michelle, and, NOBAMA !!!





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